On the other hand, Zhantai Mieming (whose other name was Zi Yu) was rather homely, and at their first meeting Confucius did not think he had much talent.

• 澹台灭明（字子羽）则是相貌丑恶，初见孔子时，孔子也不觉他有什麽才干，后来才慢慢发现子羽是个谨守法度，行不由径的侠义君子。